Thanks bebu...
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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11
Educational achievement of JW's - statistics?
by somebodylovesme ini was wondering if anyone has seen any kind of data related to the highest educational levels attained by jws... don't they ask for religion and education on the census?
i seem to remember my mom mentioning something about a study awhile back that listed the percentage of each religion's followers that had college degrees - only at the time, we were looking for info on a different religion, so i didn't take note of the jw level.
anyone have any ideas?.
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11
Educational achievement of JW's - statistics?
by somebodylovesme ini was wondering if anyone has seen any kind of data related to the highest educational levels attained by jws... don't they ask for religion and education on the census?
i seem to remember my mom mentioning something about a study awhile back that listed the percentage of each religion's followers that had college degrees - only at the time, we were looking for info on a different religion, so i didn't take note of the jw level.
anyone have any ideas?.
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Max Divergent
To be average on education, the average Congo of 50 publishers aged over 15 would have to have:
* 1 or 2 Bro's or Sis's with Graduate Diploma, Masters or Doctoral degrees;
* 5 with Bachelor degrees, and
* 11 with Diplomas or trades certificates or equivilent.
That's according to the 2001 Census held in Australia. The actual numbers are: 3.2% have Post Graduate degrees (up from 1.9% in 1991); 9.7% have a Bachelor degree (5.7% in '91); and 21.8% have a Diploma or a vocational certificate of some kind (18.8% in '91)
Max BCommerce (IT) CCNA A+ ... with a law degree starting next week...
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What shall we do?? Or: Is there any avoiding them?
by Max Divergent inwe escaped jw'dom a few years ago and have recently bought a home about 250km from where we lived about 10 years ago.. near encounters of the third kind.
imagine my fright in the local hardware mega-store when i just managed to dodge a sister from our old congo in the poaint section!!!!
that night, i put on the tv and the commercial for a firm of builders i'd thought of using came on - the local contact was the sister's husband!!!
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Max Divergent
We escaped JW'dom a few years ago and have recently bought a home about 250km from where we lived about 10 years ago.
Near encounters of the third kind
Imagine my fright in the local hardware mega-store when I just managed to dodge a sister from our old congo in the poaint section!!!! That night, I put on the TV and the commercial for a firm of builders I'd thought of using came on - the local contact was the sister's husband!!! (or at least has the same name)While still recovering from this, our dog went missing (who used to bark at elders) so I ended up going to the neighbours to see if he'd gone up there... once there, they went on to tell us about all the other neighbours, one set are apparently very nice and honest, 'actually, they're Jehovah's Witnesses...'
Not only did he say it correctly (not Jehovah Witness or somthing), but he went on to say he'd been reading an interesting article in a magazine about how valuable pets are to our well being (since we were looking for the dog)... I assumed Awake! and just about ran...
We needed a drink after all this, and while driving to the liquor store saw a truck from a business that's run and operated almost exclusivly by JW's parked in the street, and that was our second sighting of it in town!!! Do they live here now???
(Well, actually these things happened in the same week rather than the same day, but for the sake of the story, let's pretend:)
DilemmasI think there are three options: 1) we sell and dodge them, 2) We host an Apostofest and confront them, or 3) We should go back to the meetings so I can become an elder and exploit and abuse the (seemingly) large local flock.
The fourth option of living quietly and minding our own business just won't last...
Oh, what to do????
Smiles, Max
(PS: I drank some of the booty with the aforesaid neighbour and have concluded he's not a JW, but may be a sympathiser. His wife might even be a study...)
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Elder Visit
by Coqui ini've been away for a year and a half.
today my family got a knock on the door and yes two witness, one a servant who i know and an elder who i had never met.. mostly small talk all directed at me and not my wife.
i never da nor had i been df'ed.. elder question: do you beleive this is the truth?
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Max Divergent
This sort of questioning is their only really strong tool against someone doing NOTHING, like not going to meetings but not being seen to critisise the WTS (or otherwise sin) either. It's best dodged, but that's hard to do.
When that question was asked, I knew I was on a hiding to nothing and took a risky approach to kill it off....
I said that I'd been doing some soul searching and looked up heritic and apostate in the dictionary.
I said that from this I realised that if I said Yes, then I'd be a dictionary-definition heritic because I wasn't acting in accord with my beliefs; and if I said No, then I'd be a dictionary-definition apostate for turning against my beliefs....
I said that I was sure I wasn't either of those things, although I wasn't sure how I felt right now - partly becuase I was having a tough mental and emotional time right then...
They looked at me like I was mad (which was good, as that was part of my fast tactical withdrawl under covering fire strategy - ill health is about the only acceptable excuse for eccentric behaviour for the JW's), accused me a few times of using smokescreens to avoid talking about it all and to dodge the question, but couldn't find a scripture that said that was a sin, so they left and didn't bother me much more after that....
Not too long later I moved a long, long, long way away...
My advice - DO NOT try this dangerous tactic at home!!
Max
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JW prayer
by kj insomething strange happened with my jw mom today.
even though we have different beliefs (she being a jw, and me being a member of "babylon the great", we always pray before meals.
today she began her prayer with, "our god and heavenly father..." and did not say jehovah.
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Max Divergent
What's odd is that she'd share in a prayer with you.
In their view, JW's are the only true Christians, so by definition you can't be part of a valid prayer to God - hence her prayer is invalid and unheard by God.
I seem to recall an article about if a non-JW father wanted to pray on behalf of his family. The JW's could accept his words out of respect of his 'headship', but would need to say their own (silent) prayer too. Since you aint your mom's head, that dosn't apply to her.
There's no 'rule' about using the name in a prayer, it's general practice and a fairly natural thing to do but not a religious nessesity.
Max
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Witness World Response to Apostates
by DevonMcBride inbelow is what was posted on witness world by polly pan.
i took euphemism's advice and others to protect my identity.
about a week ago it was brought to administrations attention that there may be apostates lurking on our board, as a precautionary measure we deleted 107 members who had never posted since they joined.
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Max Divergent
LOL!! But it is fun when the stakes are so low Sassy... :-)
Sir Humphry
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Everybody, I need your help re Daughter
by xjw_b12 inas some of you know, when cj and i were married, i adopted her daughter, and raised her as my own.
i love her so much, i never referred to her as step-daughter, and never will.
she calls me dad, even though her biological father, somehow found his way out out of the woodwork, when she turned 18.
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Max Divergent
Forgive me, but what is the issue? I'm not implying that there's no issue, I just don't know what your concern is for the younger kids. (I take it that they aren't likley to join your daughter and BF for an orgy, or are they?)
If you were a JW, I'd recognise it straight away... by giving a room you'd be condoning fonication under your roof.
But if you're not and you're as cool as you sound about your daughter's varied sex life, what is the message you want to give the children?
Is it that you want to assert a moral view that it's OK for your daughter to be a serial fornicatrix including having lesbian and extra-martial relationships, but it's wrong to share a room/bed with a BF in your house?
Is it that they should learn to review the practices of others against a self-selected moral benchmark, and impose those views oon others when they have the opportunity (like visting their house)?
Both those sound very odd to me, so perhaps it's somthing else?
All I suggest (since you ask) is that you know exactly what message it is that you want to send your daughter, her boyfriend, your partner and yourself.
Maybe you beleive there's somthing inherently more wrong about sharing a bed with a BF, than about creating a charade for kids to see straight through?
Max
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Witness World Response to Apostates
by DevonMcBride inbelow is what was posted on witness world by polly pan.
i took euphemism's advice and others to protect my identity.
about a week ago it was brought to administrations attention that there may be apostates lurking on our board, as a precautionary measure we deleted 107 members who had never posted since they joined.
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Max Divergent
Well Sassy, well, no ... I don't recall.... Well, no, I do recall that I certainly did not do such a thing, well not in my presence anyhow.... and no-one under my roof did either, to the best of my recollection .... and the records will support my belief that nothing of the sort happened, it's on file that nothing happened of the nature you describe, the records are very specific about that...
I t's my understanding that if anything like that might have happened, it wasn't me - or can't be proved to be me which amounts to the same thing really... although there might in some quarters be some suggestion that there may be some sort of event that may have been similar to what has been described which would have been perpetrated with skill and guile and with a degree of subtlety that our JW-only site moderator seems to deny could occur, still the record and my recollection speak in unison and full agreement...
M ax D has never ever done any of those bad, bad things you ask about.... never, ever have I been caught posting to a JW-only site which I know you to have moderated or administered
I declare this statement to be true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.
By oath of Max D - a one-time government employee
(Still just joking.... )
really.... just stirring the pot....
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15
Anyone from the UK that can help me? by answering some of my questions?
by finger ini posted here the other day and got a great response.. my bro in law gf is becoming a jw but he thinks it wont effect them as a couple (he doesnt want to become one).
i just want to know if being a jw in england is any different than in other countries?.
me and my husband sense trouble ahead for him this was comfirmed by a lot of the replies i recieved by mainly peole from canada and america.. i f anyone has experiances about jw in the uk i would appreciate hearing them.
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Max Divergent
I've been part of one UK and several Australian congos (with many UK people), and visited a couple more UK congos and a couple of US ones. You live there and have lived this experience, so you know better than I. But you've raised a general point too.
As I've expereinced it, there are many British cultures where being sociable, or 'agreeable' is an important thing.
That, I think, comes out in the STYLE of enforcment rather than in the actuality - there's a thing about subtley ('hinting') and not upsetting others in some parts of Britian that seem 'nice', but in my limited experience covers a heart of iron lurking just under the surface.
Being 'unevenly yoked' is not only a rule, but part of the social outlook of JW's. If your wife was an active JW in good standing who and was known to have started a relationship with a worldly person, then it's inconcievable she wouldn't have been counciled and been deemed 'spiritually weak' irregardless of where she lived.
If she was 'on the outer' at the time they may have felt she was not then part of the congregation which is a reason for taking limited action.
The style might well have been 'nice' enough not to have traumatised your wife, and that's your good luck. Maybe she didn't care, maybe she didn't notice, maybe she didn't tell you ... but if it was known, the JW's did treat her differently.
Once you were married and moved on, it's a different story. She was almost certainly be limited in what 'privilages' she'd be alowed to partake in, at least for a period of a few years. For example, if you tell me that she was approved as a Regular Pioneer in the same year she married you, I could not beleive that to be accurate.
As time goes on, the issue will loose currancy - regrdless of where you live - becuase you're married.
They're unlikley to stop your friend's GF becoming a JW, and they will probbaly be polite and friendly to her BF. If they marry, things will settle over time.
But in the meantime she will be treated differently, she will be restricted in what she can do and where she can go (both 'spiritually' and socially) and the motive will be to prevent her being 'unevenly yoked'.
The local elders might be nice about it, or they might be nasty. But they will act that way.
If they don't, let us know and we'll dob them into Mill Hill as likley future apostates... :)
Max
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Witness World Response to Apostates
by DevonMcBride inbelow is what was posted on witness world by polly pan.
i took euphemism's advice and others to protect my identity.
about a week ago it was brought to administrations attention that there may be apostates lurking on our board, as a precautionary measure we deleted 107 members who had never posted since they joined.
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Max Divergent
I'm really surprised that you bother to sign up at JW sites still. It's a game that is quite tiresome. As soon as you start to post you reveal yourselves.
...but I've been posting as a JW for years and haven't been detected!!!!
Max - trained in evangelisim and redirecting hearts by the JW's themselves
(only joking )